Christian Couple removed from Foster Care List

We have this article from the Daily Mail Foster child to be taken away because Christian couple refuse to teach him about homosexuality

Earlier this year, Somerset County Council's social services department asked them to sign a contract to implement Labour's new Sexual Orientation Regulations, part of the Equality Act 2006, which make discrimination on the grounds of sexuality illegal.

Officials told the couple that under the regulations they would be required to discuss same-sex relationships with children as young as 11 and tell them that gay partnerships were just as acceptable as heterosexual marriages.

They could also be required to take teenagers to gay association meetings.

When the Mathericks objected, they were told they would be taken off the register of foster parents.

The problem social services is trying to address, as I see it, is the question, "What if a foster child placed with this couple is gay?"

We find that about 5% of children are born with a non-heterosexual orientation. That's one child in 20. Doing the math, we find that of the 28 children they looked after, there is a 76% chance that at least one of these children fit into a non-heterosexual category.

So then, what is the potential detrimental effect to such a child's healthy development if he or she is raised in a gay un-friendly environment? For example, as foster care parents typically do, they would take the children in their care to church with them. In the case of the nonconformist South Chard Christian Church this couple favors, they would be subject to the anti-gay rhetoric that comes from the pulpit and the congregations self-righteous disdain for anything homosexual.

Yet, we know that the social ostracism that a church like this and this couple as ministers in this church promote can produce anxiety, depression and self destructive behaviors in gay youngsters. In fact, the suicide rate among gay teens is three times higher than teens in general as a result of the way gays are mistreated by society in general.

It's not possible to tell if a young child is gay or not. Yet should we place any child in such a gay un-friendly environment if there is any chance that he or she is? Social services doesn't want to take this risk. I support their decision.

Charisma- When Preaching Becomes a Hate Crime

From a comment on the Charisma Forum When Preaching becomes a 'Hate Crime'

Macy said:

Funny thing is Bill, despite all that wonderful intellectual crowd telling us that homosexuality isnt wrong or whatever,
the one that made them and has all knowledge and wisdom,
calls it an abomination?

The abomination is when men leave their "natural" affection for women (HETEROSEXUALS) and engage in same sex behaviors.

In Sodom, the vast majority of the men who showed up at Lot's door were HETEROSEXUALS behaving badly.

Paul comdemns th HETEROSEXUALS who left their wives at home to engage the services of young male prostiutes, a form of birth control, and the HETEROSEXUAL idol worshipers engaging in promiscuous sexual activities with both men and women.

The prohibition in Leviticus is to keep HETEROSEXUAL men from using this form of birth control as well, to ensure the growth of the tribe during their 40 years in the desert.

For the HETEROSEXUALS mentioned in each case in the Bible, to engage in same sex activities is "unnatural" and therefore "sinful."

For homosexuals to engage in sexual activities with a person of the opposite sex would be just as "unnatural" for them and therefore also "sinful."

Note the tragedy that results when a gay man tries to pretend to be straight and enters a sham marriage with someone he could never love, only to have the whole arrangement fall apart later when the pretense can no longer be maintained. This is particularly damaging to the family and society in general when there are children involved.

This is the terrible harm that is done if someone were to follow Lucy's unethical suggestions.

The abomination is when a person doesn't live within the boundries of the sexual orientation they are born with, whether it's heterosexuals having unnatural relations with persons of the same sex which is what the Bible addresses or same sex attracted people having unnatural relations with persons of the opposite sex. Both are unnatural and therefore sinful. Relations which are appropriate to one's sexual orientation are not.

Don't use passages which condemn the inappropriate behavior of heterosexuals and assume they apply to same sex attracted persons as well.

Would you consider marrying someone who is gay??? I don't think that would be wise. Do you?

Baptists Promote Ex-Gay Therapy - VI

Comment posted regarding Tennessean article Baptists reach out to gays, to make them 'ex-gays'

deliciousirony80 mentions,

"I agree with cortney, too. At some point, we have to stand back and let it sink in that nobody is going to change minds on here. I do appreciate seeing what others think and new ways to consider or think about what I believe in. But it is very rare that this people on this forum really change my way of thinking on whatever topic. I have to assume that people who disagree with me would be similar, at least in that respect."

Perhaps so, yet we can't let misinformation about gays go unanswered. We must respond to their lies with the truth:

1. People who are adjusted to their natural born sexuality, both gay and straight, can live the same healthy, happy, productive lives. Those who claim that being straight is "better" than being gay are just as mistaken as those who believed that being white is superior to being black.

2, There are no diagnostically testable differences between gays and straights. They both respond similarly during psychological testing.

3. Gays have served in the military with distinction, as have others. The idea that being gay is a disability or disorder is clearly refuted by these undeniable facts.

4. No environmental factors during upbringing have been shown to influence adult sexual orientation. These natural variations in human sexuality are a near random happenstance of birth.

5. No "cure" for same sex attractions has ever been found. These primitive limbic system responses to sexual stimuli are not subject to change.

6. Those who unjustly condemn gays and their behavior bare a great deal of responsibility for the problems gays have. In areas where gay acceptance is higher, these problems fade away.

Professionals and others who are aware of these facts need to bring them to the public's attention. Confronting the hateful lies and malicious misinformation that some spew out about gays not only helps members of the GLBT community and their families but the community in general as well.

Baptists Promote Ex-Gay Therapy - V

Comment posted regarding Tennessean article Baptists reach out to gays, to make them 'ex-gays

clarksbar wrote,

"The thing is that many non-political mental health professionals believe that homosexuality is a mental disorder based on years of treating homosexuals and in-depth studies."

I see you're blowin' smoke again.

Here are the groups,

American Academy of Pediatrics
American Counseling Association
American Association of School Administrators
American Federation of Teachers
American Psychological Association
American School Health Association
National Association of School Psychologists
National Association of Social Workers
National Education Association

which have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus there is no need for a "cure." Notice they include the more progressive National Education Association and the more conservative American Federation of Teachers.

Ref: Just the Facts About Sexual Orientation & Youth:
A Primer for Principals, Educators and School Personnel

Add in the American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychoanalytic Association and others representing 790,000 professionals. In reply you link to the 130 members of NARTH, none of whom is a professionally credentialed psychologist.

Your smoke is too thin to obscure the reality of the matter. The fact that homosexuality is not a mental disorder is backed up by 50+ years of research in the area.

Baptists Promote Ex-Gay Therapy - IV

Comment posted regarding Tennessean article Baptists reach out to gays, to make them 'ex-gays'

Bryant said,

Don't know how to break it to you Bill but those people you mention are far from unanimous in thinking homosexuality is normal in fact i would be surprised if even a majority does.

I have a sister who is quite an accomplished Psychologist who thinks it is anything but normal and she says there are plenty more who feel the same.

The LEADERSHIP thinks it is normal and attempt to present it as a unanimous or nearly so opinion.

I would love to see a vote on it myself(among Psychologists).

I didn't say homosexuality was "normal," i.e. typical. I said it is a normal variation in human sexuality. Big difference. Don't misstate what I've said in order to justify your anti-gay prejudices. Thanks.

Here's The American Psychiatric Association's view on the what the SBC is proposing:

Question: Is it ethical to engage in a therapy (such as reparative or conversion therapy) to change sexual orientation?

Answer: No. Although successful and ethical treatments for legitimate psychiatric diagnoses may sometimes lead to some changes in sexual behavior, any treatment that is based on an assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder, or is based on an assumption that the patient should change his or her sexual orientation, is by its nature unethical, as it violates numerous ethics principles. Such so-called "treatment" ignores established scientific evidence, demeans the dignity of the patient, succumbs to individual and social prejudice and stigma, and has often been significantly harmful to patients, families, others, and their relationships.

From: Principles of Medical Ethics, 2001 Edition.

The American Psychological Association supports this view:

Can Therapy Change Sexual Orientation?

No. Even though most homosexuals live successful, happy lives, some homosexual or bisexual people may seek to change their sexual orientation through therapy, sometimes pressured by the influence of family members or religious groups to try and do so. The reality is that homosexuality is not an illness. It does not require treatment and is not changeable.

What About So-Called "Conversion Therapies"?

The American Psychological Association is concerned about such therapies and their potential harm to patients. In 1997, the Association's Council of Representatives passed a resolution reaffirming psychology's opposition to homophobia in treatment and spelling out a client's right to unbiased treatment and self-determination. Any person who enters into therapy to deal with issues of sexual orientation has a right to expect that such therapy would take place in a professionally neutral environment absent of any social bias.

From:Answers to Your Questions About Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality

The APA has created a task force to look into revising these statements. Most APA members I've talked to would like a stronger condemnation of any efforts to change a persons sexual orientation due to the harm that usually results. Whether it also declares this practice unethical remains to be seen. Preliminary results are due Dec, 2007

The fact that the SBC would promote the unethical treatment of gays via these "ex-gay" programs is astonishing, but not all that surprising.

Baptists Promote Ex-Gay Therapy - III

Comment posted regarding Tennessean article Baptists reach out to gays, to make them 'ex-gays

clarksbar said,

" And you forget that the APA also supported pedophilia until Congress went after its arse."

Not so! The APA published research on the effects of pedophilia on a large number of children. They found that the degree of harm done varies considerably. No surprise there. Many were severely traumatized, most moderately so. For some the effect was modest and a few suffered little or no ill effects.

Therefore, clinicians should not assume the worst in every case. If the child rebounds quickly, shows none of the secondary characteristics of trauma: anxiety, withdrawal, bed wetting, nightmares, etc., then it's possible that the child is one of the few who was not as greatly effected as most children are. Long term therapy would not be indicated in these cases.

Suggesting that by publishing these results, the APA supports pedophilia is nonsense. It's like saying that while most people have severe to moderate headaches as a result of being mugged, a few don't end up with a headache at all, therefore mugging is okay. It's just that silly. The APA has a strong position against child molestation. Members deal with the psychological harm that results every day.

The APA promotes the mental health of the citizens it serves. It makes recommendations based on the best scientific information available. Removing homosexuality from the list of mental disorders was based on sound research findings like the first four I've already mentioned. Here's another:

Fifth, there's no "cure" for same sex attractions. Since environmental factors (upbringing, child abuse, etc) do not cause these feelings to develop in some people, environmental factors (therapy) can't make them go away. About every type of therapy imaginable has been tried, from Freudian psychoanalysis to electro-shock treatments, all to no avail. These limbic system responses occur at a primitive level that is not subject to conscious control or therapeutic manipulation.

If there were even the slimmest chance that one of these reparative or conversion "therapies" worked, wouldn't the National Institute of Mental Health be financing research in this area under the Bush Administration? Fifty years of science says that such attempts at therapy don't work. The NIMH is not wasting research funds trying to do the impossible.

We don't need to spend time and money on a "cure" for a disease that doesn't exist in the first place. Yet that's what the Southern Baptist Convention is doing in promoting its "ex-gay" programs.

Baptists Promote Ex-Gay Therapy - II

Comment posted regarding Tennessean article Baptists reach out to gays, to make them 'ex-gays

clarksbar said,

"There was absolutely NO logical reason to remove homosexuality, as a formal disorder from the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) during that fateful conference in 1973. None whatsoever! It was removed for political reasons and the materials offered, as proof, were based on fiction."

Here are two more logical reasons:

Third, it was clear after WWII that gays didn't "break down" during combat stress due to their "mental illness" as many had supposed. Instead, they served honorably and with distinction as did other Americans. The same was true in Korea, and the war I served in, Vietnam. A fellow US Air Force Academy graduate and pilot is gay. Do you think they would have given him a $3,500,000 airplane to fly if he were suffering from some mental illness or other? Members of the APA recognized the same thing. Homosexuality had no debilitating effects during military service, a truly stressful environment, so maintaining that it was an illness made no sense to them.

Forth, the wealth of data available for research from the Army Alpha testing program, and the surprisingly successful gay military service, lead to a surge in research on homosexuality beginning in the 1950's. A primary object of research was to "prove" Freud's conjectures that upbringing factors (distant father, domineering mother, you name it) were the root cause of homosexuality. Later studies became larger and more sophisticated, but try as they might, they couldn't find any relation between childhood experiences and adult sexual orientation. Trauma can lead to many mental disorders. With none discovered in this case, it left homosexuality on the shaky ground of being a disease without a cause.

Removing homosexuality from the DSM was based on logical reasoning backed by sound scientific research.

Baptists Promote Ex-Gay Therapy

Comment posted regarding Tennessean article Baptists reach out to gays, to make them 'ex-gays

clarksbar sez,

"Of course you're correct. God is clear about sin and repentance. The perverted ones would have all of Christ's Words regarding sin removed from Scripture. If they are so dysfunctional that they cannot function on a fundamental human level, why should we expect their cognitive reasoning abilities to be normal, in other areas? Based on some of the comments they post and the rationales they use on this forum alone, they are not."

There were several major reasons why the American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from its DSM listing of psychological disorders, and other medical and mental health organizations quickly followed suit. These two relate to your remark:

First, if we give randomly selected groups of gays and straights a whole battery of psychological and cognitive tests, then give them anonymously to a panel of diagnosticians, there's no way the panel can tell which group is which. Sure, both groups will have members with psychological problems of various kinds, but there's no recognizable pattern of differences that would distinguish between the two groups.

Testing is designed to help the clinician determine the specifics of a person's mental disorder so the proper treatment can be prescribed. Changes in testing results later show how successful the treatment has been. Here we have no differences between gays and straights to guide us and how would these tests tell us that the "treatment" is successful when the before and after test results are the same???

The logical conclusion is that homosexuality is not a mental disorder in the first place.

Second, a disorder implies an impairment in a person's ability to function successfully in routine areas of their life. Research comparing gays and straights who are adjusted to their sexuality find that gays can lead the same healthy, happy, productive lives as anyone else. There are no impairments to their abilities simply because they are gay. Hence, being gay is not a disorder.

Those who promote change for members of the GLBT community imply that such change would be "for the better." Yet we see that gays who accept their sexuality as it is are no worse off than their straight counterparts. "Better" is a wholely religious judgement in this context. It has no basis in scientific reality.

The theraputic approach to related problems that gays have is to help them learn to cope with their innate sexuality in an often hostile environment. So you might see why there may be some animousity between mental health professionals and those who add to the problem by calling gays such things as "dysfunctional perverts."

PFOX - Arlington School Settlement - II

Comment posted regarding Daily Press article Group promoting gay 'conversion' settles with Arlington schools:

my Brother EX GAY wrote

hey if the "gay crowd" can distribute their propaganda.... then My Brother's Group HAS THE SAME RIGHTS!!!!

No one has the right to promote unethical, disproven treatment for conditions that members of the medical and mental health community have found do not even exist.

Non-heterosexual attractions are natural variations in human sexuality that occur in near random fashion for reasons we don't yet understand. These primitive limbic system reactions are not subject to change.

Attempting to produce this change is considered unethical by those of us who have professional standards to maintain. The fact that groups influenced by their religious beliefs have no ethical standards to guide them, doesn't make what they are doing okay